Thank you all for contributing to this discussion and once again, your thoughtful comments merit being posted front and center.
Donna: What particularly intrigues me is how a "purely" physically-induced experience is linked to past times when there was a social/emotional reason for the wave of heat. Our minds really do work that way.
...so far I haven't yet experienced such things, but they will happen, I know. I feel as if I've just figured myself out and now the rules are all going to change, lol. Isn't life interesting that way?
Isabel: My question is this: Is it a purely physically-induced experience and/or is it exacerbated by our response/reaction to it, because, I face it, some of this aging process is terrifying, but if we take a deep breath and let it flow can we get through it with at the least grace and dignity?
I'm going to push the limit here and give you the flip side of this uncomfortable experience in another poem.
At 53
A soft warmth
Washes
Over my face
My breasts revert
to supple
pre-motherhood crescents
Hyper sensitive to the touch
Nipples and cunt yearn
Desire mounts
And now
Only warm semen seeps
Where once
My warm blood flowed
Jeremy: Amazing image!
Emerald: I just commented on Donna's blog about the intelligence of the body, and I agree much with you both that our response to/interpretation of physical/body-related aspects have relevance and that experiences of the physical body are opportunities to be in touch with ourselves on many levels.
Isabel: I feel very strongly, literally and figuratively, that the physical and psycho/emotional are intricately interwoven. We need to heed both our physical and emotional signals. One follows the other and it is never clear which is which.
Emerald: Definitely
Donna: Emerald said it for me already, but of course making meaning is what the human brain craves, isn't it? And I'm sure our cultural context as well as our personal history in making meaning influences the experience. As you pointed out, if menopause is seen as liberation and a chance to explore sexuality as recreation rather than reproduction, then it will be greeted differently than if it's seen as the end of desirability, with the assumption that our husbands will now dump us for a younger woman (although that brain book said 65% of divorces after 50 are initiated by the woman!) Change is always a challenge and not that we should aim to go through it without conflict or struggle, but I like the idea of doing it differently, borrowing from other cultures, challenging the status quo. I guess I've always liked that, lol.
Gina Marie: The older I get, the more I want to taste, and the more I taste, the more I want to live, the faster I want to go. Life just gets richer and richer -- and more poetic every day. And tastier, too.
Jeremy, thank you so much for the validation of this image, it is a truly beautiful experience amid all the other rather scary ones.
Emerald, absolutely, I think we need to remain very conscious of what our bodies are telling us and vice versa.
Dear Donna, I love the statistic that 65% of divorces after 50 are initiated by the woman! I’d say it was worth the read just for that. ; ) borrowing from other cultures hm, it would be very interesting to hear the Japanese take on this. Change is extremely difficult and challenging the status quo and thinking for ourselves is a the way to go. Confronting societal norms is really a challenge, one is on one’s own at that point and must remain strong in one’s convictions because you’re pretty alone with them. If I had a role model it might be Charlotte Rampling.
Gina Marie! I am so with you on all that! It’s almost like a distilling process, the more you live the stronger the sensations on all levels. Thank you so much.
The aging process seems to start from the top down (as I write in yet another age related poem, I’m ok from about the collar bone down so far, and my toes show hardly any signs of age at all ; ) ) and the outside in, I think it is a matter of getting used to what you see in the mirror and accepting it, while still enjoying the sensations in all their increasing intensity. Like “At 53” there are so many advantages in the process.
Again, thank you all so much for contributing.
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I will be 52 soon (in a few months) and I'm finding that my life is so much better than it was when I was younger. Not easier. Better. More interesting. More satisfying. Especially as I accept more and more of myself.
Thanks for this Isabel. Lovely poem by the way.
Thanks Robin. It's as though we have been searching for this self-awareness, self acceptance all this time and it's right in front of us, unfortunately, as I'd mentioned to Donna in an email, I'd turn back if I were you is not an option. : )
This really feels like a discussion now--not too far from the salon that I dream about, although in a way "in the flesh" discussions take much longer to get to the heart of things as we've done here :-).
I read a book about menopause in Japan a long time ago and the main thing I remember is that it wasn't as "severe" as here, but there also wasn't a lot of freedom of expression about it either. You just endured it as you do everything else and trot off to the doctor for some hormones. Now in Japan the ideal woman is in high school, so I guess you'd have social withdrawal at 25. In fact, Western men complain about this all the time, but once Japanese women get married, most of them stop with the makeup and fashion and turn into mommies. I say good for them, being the type who was never into fashion or makeup.
But I digress. It could be the high soy, high fish diet (although I'd caution against the very high sodium in the Japanese diet), but Japanese women do lead long, healthy lives AND older women are revered and finally have a chance to be themselves. The coolest and most aggressive people in Japan are the grandma's. Come to think of it, maybe that is much of the reason why it's not so bad.
Thanks for letting me "think aloud" here, Isabel.
Thanks Donna. That's very interesting, and it seems as though age is revered in other cultures and that the western ideal of eternal youth and beauty hasn't corrupted them yet. Eastern cultures are in a league of their own anyway.
Thanks again Donna.
I find people who are bent upon appearing younger than they are unappealing. Always have.
I know our society rewards this, we have full industries built around it. Surgeries, applications, etc. But there is nothing more beautiful than confidence and self-realization. This does not mean a person doesn't struggle with age, quiet the contrary. It means they deal with it on realistic terms.
I agree with Robin that, though life is not easier, it is better as I approach 50. Many challenges ahead, and what is behind me is what prepares me for the next leg in the journey.
All the seasons are beautiful in their way. In the summer, we dress light, or undress. In the winter we bundle.
Running naked in the snow is certainly eye-catching, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do.
I suppose I've strayed from the topic; this is more of a stream of thoughts that a well considered reply. Just a humble contribution to a great discussion on the state of aging by some very beautiful women.
A hear, hear to the thought of aging honestly.
Waxing philosophical Craig. Wonderful. Age does give one perspective as well. As for the seasons, fall is beautiful, is that what time it is in my life? ; ) I love summer though, undressed especially, and don't much like bundling up in winter. Too constrained, maybe that's it, I don't want constraints and perhaps that means expectations place on me...
Speaking of dressing, I'm bristling at the preacherly tone of a recent magazine issue that asks: Are you dressing your age; Is your closet too young; 10 age appropriate pieces. Fuck that! Talk about reinforcing the idea that aging is not good, that is downright insulting. Wear what looks and feels good. Sorry, I got off on a tangent.
Thanks Craig for responding sensitively to these issues. It's nice to know we can be seen for who we are.
What a lovely tangent, Isabel.
That people condescend to say what is appropriate, how "everyone" within a group should behave or appear is indeed insulting.
I had not yet commented on the poems you presented on the subject of Menopause as I have no personal frame of reference. Then I thought about it. Really, that's the point; your exploration enlightened me with its honest, beautiful imagery.
Thank you.
Thank you for your thoughtful response Craig. I'm touched to know that the poems moved you in some way. Even though you have no point of reference, these are the transitions we all make in some way, into woman/man hood, with a reward of parenthood, into parenthood with a reward of children, then for a woman into menopause with the release of responsibility of motherhood. Apparently men experience a sense of release too, in that they feel less burdened by bread winner responsibilities as they age. There was an interesting article which you would have seen a link to if you were on facebook. : ) One of its few utilities is sharing these links: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinion/20dowd.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=blue%20is%20the%20new%20black&st=cse
Thank you again Craig.
Are you dressing your age; Is your closet too young; 10 age appropriate pieces. Fuck that!
Well stated! I'm sure that probably plenty of people don't think I dress my age - but I'm not sure what "age appropriate" for my age is, lol. And I just googled and one place doesn't even go above 40! Guess I'm just dead then, roflmao.
It makes it sound like an illness doesn't it? Are you dressing appropriately for the weather, so you don't catch cold, the flu or worse, age. I've been in the fashion industry all of my life, and I know about dressing appropriately, for the circumstances. I also have a bone to pick with an industry which promotes certain styles to the exclusion of others,(baby doll looks eg.) and then says, you can't wear that. One assumes that this magazine would be speaking to the majority of their readership in a leading article, what, are we all complete idiots who don't know how to put ourselves together? Are we now relegated to wearing sensible shoes? Condescending, patronizing and insulting. Rant over, thanks for listening!
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